Episode Description

Have you ever wondered if there's more? This episode tackles the challenge we all face in listening to that burning fire inside that life holds more, for all of us. We take a fun ride into what it means to shift from existing to living and getting the most out of life, whatever that means for you.  

Episode Transcript

Jordan Johnson  00:05

You're listening to live alive podcast, a weekly dose of motivation right in your back pocket. I'm Jordan Johnson.

Anisa Johnson  00:12

and I'm Anisa Johnson.

Jordan Johnson  00:14

We're your hosts. Every week, we share thought provoking conversations created to inspire you to bring the best version of you into everything you do. Think of us as the guide as you journey towards realizing your vision of successful and fulfilling life. Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder, building a business, or dreaming of being a stay at home parent, we're here to help you cultivate passion, purpose and motivation in your everyday life. Alright, hey, good people. Welcome again to the live alive podcast on shifting from existing to living. We're gonna have a great conversation today. 

Anisa Johnson  00:59

I'm excited. 

Jordan Johnson  01:00

I'm pumped too, I'm pumped too. Episode 1 is huge. It's huge. How are you feeling over there, Anisa? 

Anisa Johnson  01:07

I'm good. I am a little bit nervous. But we got this.

Jordan Johnson  01:13

Well, as the saying goes, butterflies are good. And as long as you get them to fly in the right direction. And I see... I see a lot of directional flying butterflies in this room. I feel good about it. 

Anisa Johnson  01:23

Oh, for sure. 

Jordan Johnson  01:24

I feel good about it. Well, welcome again to everybody. This episode, this first episode, we're really going to spend the conversation talking about some of our own experiences around shifting from existing to living but you know, really want to hit a few moments to just kind of talk about what those things mean. Right, we talked about shifting from existing to living. Well, what's one and what's the other? Well, I mean, existing, you know, to me, it's like your status quo, right. You're kind of going and you know, not really paying attention to things. Life's happening to you, and maybe you're not happening to it. What do you think? What's existing to you?

Anisa Johnson  02:06

Existing to me, when I think about existing, I think about complacency, honestly. That's like, kind of the best way to describe it to me is you're not really like what you said. Like you're not going after and getting after life. You're just, there.

Jordan Johnson  02:24

just there. That sounds like in the bleachers rather than in the game. That sounds like yeah, spectators.

Anisa Johnson  02:30

Existing is a spectator sport.

Jordan Johnson  02:32

Which is a nice transition. Like if so if existing is a spectator sport, meaning it's passive. Living is active it's an action verb. So shifting from existing to living... maybe living is intentionality. Maybe it's presence awareness.

Anisa Johnson  02:52

Yeah, it's doing. It's getting out of your head and acting and like, doing the things that you're thinking about, doing the things that you're talking about, like, doing them. Like you're not talking about a podcast, you're pressing record.

Jordan Johnson  03:08

I like it. I like it. We're trying to live by our own examples here. Yeah. Interesting.  And I think this what we... I say I think, but I know, I know, I know that's what we, what we mean by by living alive is the title of the podcast, live a live podcast live alive as a movement as a meaning. That sense of, you know, shifting from existing to living and when you do that, though, I think that living alive is ultimately the summary of that outcome that you get to experience, right. It's, it's, it's, it's actually living. Being alive it's being alive. I think that's what it is being alive. So live alive, I think, is a good summation of shifting from existing to living

Anisa Johnson  03:54

For sure. I mean, a lot of people think that they're living but there simply existing and so when you bring that live alive, summation to it, alive is the descriptor for how you're living. It's active. For sure.

Jordan Johnson  04:08

Well, I'm excited to get into the rest of this. I think we got a packed conversation.

Anisa Johnson  04:13

We have jam packed conversation. 

Jordan Johnson  04:15

Do we call it an agenda? I don't know what's podcasts protocol? 

Anisa Johnson  04:18

Well, we have an agenda. Like, yeah, this is an agenda. But I don't know if it's... we got a layout. It's a plan. That said, I think one of the ways we want to start with this with this conversation... Tell us how and when did you shift from existing to living?

Jordan Johnson  04:41

Hmm, ooof. I wish I could just say like, uhh... Thursday 2000.... and... But it wasn't like that. I don't think it was that clear. I'm still shifting. And I think I'll explain what that means though. For me. It's, I think has been a collection of moments though. There's no one particular thing I think I could pin on and say like, oh, that was that day or that was that that year, but there are moments that come to mind where I think there were decisions that I made where I decided to maybe, you know, pause and see how I felt about something or rather it was, you know, I don't know... getting the sense of, of leaning into what I felt like was, was a passion. 

Maybe even for example, a moment of doing this podcast, right. I think we had it on our heart. I think you brought it to our hearts and our situation sooner. And you know, obviously, I have my fears. But you know, having that moment where I kind of leaned into this as, as a calling as a service, I think that's a good example for that, of shifting from existing to living. I've got older examples as well. But I think a series of collective moments where I decided. I decided to decide how I felt and what I wanted to lean towards.

Anisa Johnson  05:57

what do you think was one of the most impactful pieces of that collection of moments of shifting from existing to living?

Jordan Johnson  06:06

Umm, impactful pieces, really, maybe being aware of, in those moments, what was not a lining up. What I was stepping in acting on that wasn't intentional. Rather, it was me trying to maybe, maybe go along with the crowd, I think, being a millennial. I'm not gonna drop my age in here, right now for anybody that's, you know, listening. And you know, you don't want to write that down. But I am in the millennial segment as we as we both are. And I think especially, you know, getting out of a college like environment and stepping into a workforce. And even really a formal human into society, right.

There's like a 1000 things saying, like, this is how you should be, this is what you should be. This is what's important, this is what's not important. And a lot of stuff that was telling me to be a certain way, really didn't align with what my heart was telling me though. So I think my moments are kind of all wrapped around that... of saying, or listening better said. Listening to what my heart, my soul has been telling me that is my path is. I think, I think that's what maybe is a summation of my collective moments.

Anisa Johnson  07:29

I love that of being of listening to what your heart is telling you your path is. And I think that we're going to we're going to talk we are going to talk so much more about that, as we as we continue to create these episodes. So I think that's really powerful. Right there.

Jordan Johnson  07:47

Yeah, me too. I gotta send that same question back at you, though, Anisa. When you think about shifting from existing to to living, did you did you solve this you know, coming out of the womb?

Anisa Johnson  08:00

Absolutely. Absolutely. I I've always been living I never existed, No. This I think, I mean, I thought about this before we sat down to record of like, when was that moment for me, and I thought about a couple of distinct moments. And for me, I mean, I go back to being kind of like a knucklehead college student, the wise fool the kid who thought she knew everything, but really didn't know anything at all. I think about kind of squandering some of my years in college through partying and just like, doing things that again, didn't align with my values of trying to fit in and being somebody that I wasn't. And ultimately, I feel like a lot of my shifts have happened by force. And I think a lot of times that  can happen.

So for me, it was, you know, being on the verge of being kicked out of college, being on the verge of, you know, literally flunking out of school. And so I had to make a shift of act of being active and engaged in my classes and taking care of my body and my mind. And so that was kind of like the first shift. And that was out of survival, to really just start to be a little bit more engaged in why I was in school. And so that was like a little level up. But one of the things that, you know, we talked about these culmination of moments and these collection of moments that, you know, take us from existing to living, and I think you hit it on the nail on the head in saying, like, I'm still shifting. And that's really important to just know, like, it's something that's constant and like, once you level up to one thing, like you're gonna start to notice other things. So for me as a kid when I was in school, and I was on the verge of flunking out of school, there was very blaring things in front of me that I needed to fix. And so that allowed me to kind of just shift.

And I say, from a place of survival, but it was really just to do the things that I always said I was going to do. I said I was going to graduate college. So I needed to actually do the things that, that it required of me to to accomplish that. And in order to do those things, I had to change the way that I was living. I had to, you know, wake up and actually go to my 8am. I had to complete my assignments. I had to spend time studying. And ultimately I was able to, you know, have a conversation with with many people in admissions, and they against their better judgment, as they would say, because I should have been kicked out immediately... put me on academic probation, and then I was able to get myself out of academic probation in one semester. It normally takes people two or three. So I think that, you know, you just decide. You make a decision to make the changes in order to close the gap to, to get to where you want to be. Because if you have aspirations, like there's always going to be a gap in where you are to where you want to be. And so you have to decide to actively close that gap. And so for me, that's kind of like, what shifting from existing to living looks like, 

Jordan Johnson  11:20

hmm, yeah. 

Anisa Johnson  11:20

You tracking with me? 

Jordan Johnson  11:21

I'm definitely tracking with you. I'm just I'm in awe. I know we don't have the camera on here. I'm like... so much head knodding. I'm really feeling that. I hear a whole lot of not necessarily singularity in that. I think it's something that maybe I haven't yet picked up before. But I'm hearing this story from you now. And it's so much seemingly to involve others on our journey with us, like key people along those journeys with us. So just Just curious, and I know I'm comming out of left field with this one too. How much of that do you feel like is important? Or how much of that do you think weighs into that shift of trying to come from this status quo... this existence, survival mechanism to truly living alive? Like how much do you think is that a partnership or a support system effort?

Anisa Johnson  12:18

Oh, it's definitely a support system. And it's definitely about, you know, who you surround yourself with. I think when I made that shift in my lifestyle in college, like, my, the people I was hanging out with changed, inevitably. Because I was doing different things on a daily basis. And so there's a saying that's I don't know, who says it, some thought leader, somebody in the personal development space. They talk about how you are the the average of the five people that you spend the most time around. And I think, for me, as I continue to shift from existing to living and as I continue to notice, like, what are my gaps, I'm constantly trying to surround myself with... it doesn't say you are the sum of the five people that you spend the most time around. It says you're the average. Wow. So if you're the average, then you got to be hanging out with like, you know, some pretty kick ass people, right. Like, and so I think for me, a lot of that had to be a curation. And it's not necessarily like people that I know, directly. It's like, who am I listening to when I'm on the treadmill? Like, who am I listening to? Or what books am I reading? And who am I following on social media? All of those things are what you're consuming, and everything that you consume impacts your mindset. And your mindset is the very thing that is going to take you from existing to living.

Jordan Johnson  13:43

Mm hmm. Wow! We got so many other things that hit... almost like Man! That it! Like, I don't know how to follow that. But we will. We will absolutely follow that and work through the rest of the the important parts of this conversation but that's huge. I love that you mentioned the mindset and got into that a little bit. One of the next you know kind of lanes, I want to take on this or we want to take on this really is to talk a little bit about, you know, how we maintain this presence. How we maintain this... really it's growth, of you know, once you you felt like you've made a shift, you have maybe felt like you were in a place of status quo existed and you feel like you have a sense of aliveness now, you're living life with intention. What are a couple things or how do you approach generally just maintaining that choice?

Anisa Johnson  14:41

That is a really good question.

Jordan Johnson  14:42

Breathe on it. Breathe on it. 

Anisa Johnson  14:47

Yeah, I think there are so many things. There are so many things that that we could use to answer this this question but for me, I would say It's maintaining a level of awareness. And it is doing the things. And, you know, maintaining the habits that allow you to perform at your best level. And we'll talk about this a little bit later. But we're going to we're going to talk a little bit about what we notice when we're when we're when we're not living out loud, not living alive. So I think for me, what I would say is, it's definitely about intentionality.

It's definitely about being really intentional about how your days look, and what you're giving your energy to. And then going back to that consumption thing, like, are you consuming things that are giving you energy? Are you doing activities that are giving you energy? So I think for me lately, it's really been about it's really been about where's my energy? And how can I maintain my energy and so that can look different in different seasons of your life. So like, in some instances, that was getting up and doing a hit class on the Nike app. And now it looks like getting up and meditating for 10 minutes and journaling and reading my Bible. And that sets me up to have the energy to do the things that I want to do. And being okay with the fact that that looks different than it did a couple years ago. 

Jordan Johnson  16:36

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.  that's, that's huge. I know, and just so all our listeners know it as well. I mean, I, I have to really just take my hat off. You've done a really huge job in helping me find grace for myself on like, knowing that my journey now in this season doesn't have to look like it did before. I mean, and you know, having a grace for myself, I think, is huge, in being able to maintain the shift because like, you're gonna have those those lulls, where it's like, ah, man, I've been in the nine to five, or whatever it is for you. I know for most people, nine to five is like, that's a dream.

Anisa Johnson  17:18

What's nine to five? What's that? What is nine to five?

Jordan Johnson  17:22

Your eight to seven, or eight to eight, or whatever that really is for you that work life though, or whatever your grind is, right. Even if you're a stay at home parent or entrepreneur, inventor, whatever. It really is huge to have that grace for yourself. I know I've been in seasons where I felt like I was Superman. I couldn't be me harmed. I had the best health routine I had the best dietary routine, my work life balance, social balance, family, all that was in sync. And I felt like I was really intentional and present in that. And then I feel like I've had dips from those seasons where I either, like went into a rotation of letting society or the world kind of drive the car and be in the driver's seat of my life. And those were probably times where I was not as happy as I was in other times. But having yourself the right amount of grace, to give yourself to recognize that though, the grace leads, in my mind, to the recognition

Anisa Johnson  18:29

for sure. Yeah, yeah, the grace leads to the recognition. I also think it's really important to like, know that there's a lot of growth that happens in stillness, hmm. Even whether you're whether we're talking about health and fitness, and we talk about that a lot. But if you go to the gym and you lift seven days a week, like your body will plateau and like a lot of times you might see if you take a rest day or two rest days, that you'll come back and you'll be stronger. Or maybe you take a week off where I've seen I've seen people who are training and then they'll take a week off and then they'll they'll come back and say like oh man I feel so much stronger than I did before. The same is true with our brain and all of our growth. That's why I think for me, when I'm looking at stillness and slowing down and meditation, accepting the fact that there can be growth that happens there as well.

Jordan Johnson  19:26

That's huge. That's huge. Can we can we just let that breathe a minute? As we both fall back from our mics to like, let that...  Growth in in in stillness... Yeah, like there's so much... this is not where... I'm not going to take us down this rabbit hole, but it's even the same way our bodies repair. Like we exercise. We sleep, so much  repair and growth happens when we're not actually moving. To your point. Man, it's so... that's so exciting. It's making me like pumped now you're talking about it. 

Anisa Johnson  19:58

We could have a whole episode on that.

Jordan Johnson  19:59

 Right! Like, really could. I know we got a plan. We may have to work that into the episodes. But yeah, I feel like life works the same way. It's even like from a sports perspective. I know, like how, you know, a lot of adjustments are made at halftimes. Like people start games, at times terrible, like behind or whatever challenges they're in... doesn't matter to sport. But you see a lot of complete turnarounds after like intermission.  Yeah... intermission moments. And that's, I think, where that grace, where that recognition comes in. And we are able to recognize and make some changes from that, during those intermission times.

Anisa Johnson  20:45

For sure. So, you kind of touched on this a little bit, but I want to flip the question back to you, how do you maintain the choice to live alive, to be living on a daily basis?

Jordan Johnson  21:02

Um, man, I didn't realize how how intense that question was, when I asked it to you. Now like, humbled instantly, I'm instantly humbled. Um, one of the things that you hit that I definitely think is, is a big part for me as well. My quiet time in preparation. Anyone who does that's listening will quickly learn that I really view life through sports. Yeah. It's how I refer to life. It's my language for life and a lot of situations. And it's practice in preparation, right. And if, life is my is my field, when I go to do to do life, the moments that make me or enable me to maintain when I'm on the field of life, so to speak, is my practice... is my practice and my quiet time. So the the times I think that I spend, you know, in the mornings, whether it's me, you know, meditating, praying, any of those things, right. Even if I'm just thinking about how my previous day went, or what things that I could have done better or where I fell short, right. Like, mess this up or, or this stuff, where I can pat myself on the back and be like.. I did a damn good job on that one thing, that was good, I need to do more of that.

Those moments in practice, I think is really what helps me maintain. And I'll be honest, and we think about it, too, no matter how much you practice, or how much I practice. I still have bad games. I still have moments. As I mentioned earlier, I'm still shifting. I still have moments where I get caught up in the status quo. Get caught up in an unintentiona, unaware, not really thinking about what I'm doing, how I'm doing it, and whether it's bringing me joy, or whether it's tied to my to my passion and purpose.

Anisa Johnson  23:04

Yeah, yeah, that's actually like, perfect segue. So you talked about you have those moments? What, what does it look like to you when you're kind of I would say, backsliding, for lack of a better term into existing?

Jordan Johnson  23:21

That's a good question. I'm actually really excited to answer that one. When I think  about a backslide for me, it's usually when I haven't allow for that negative space, like when I haven't allowed time to think, time to consider, time to practice. Because I feel like when I when I don't do that, I end up in this... for all lack of other examples, in this like, hamster wheel type of type of motion, right. And a lot of that is the world though. A lot of that is America in particular, the like the the hamster wheel will turn and if you get on it, it is really hard to get off. And if you don't pause though, the cool thing about it though, is that you have the keys to your to your life. Like it's your vehicle.

No, as many people as you allow to get into your car, as passengers as associates, as friends, as family, they can't take your wheel. They can't step on the brake for you. They can't step on the gas for you. They can't turn for you. So reminding myself I think of that is is really important. You know, but the triggers I see maybe and alarms when I see when I'm backsliding is when I haven't had those those moments of pause. I think it's just really really huge. Where I feel like I start falling away from the action verb of living, kind of going back to what I was talking about at the beginning. It is very much an active action verb to do this. And I think when I, when I don't take the action of pausing, I end up seeing some slip ups come around with me shifting back to some status quo existing. 

Anisa Johnson  25:13

Yeah, yeah, sure, for sure. 

Jordan Johnson  25:16

Yeah, I'll send that question right back at you, though. When you... for you what triggers/alarms help you recognize a backtrack or you feel like you fall back into the status quo? What's that look like from your perspective?

Anisa Johnson  25:28

Yeah, I think for me, I look at what am I doing. I mean, I talked about how a lot of my  intentionality is around doing things that give me energy and making sure that my energy stays up. So it usually starts with, you know, sleeping in or not moving my body daily. And all of those things kind of spiral. If I'm not moving my body daily, then I have less energy, if I'm if I'm not, you know, fueling my body, putting the right things in my body that give me energy... a lot of the things that I do are, like, designed to let me have enough energy to achieve the things that I want to achieve in life. And so it usually starts by me not doing those things. And so then I have less energy, and I start to notice, but usually, this is when I notice it, I have less energy, and I'm at work, and maybe I'm getting to work like you know, right at nine, maybe 9:30/10 with work from home, let's be completely transparent here, like might not be logging in till 10 o'clock.

And the work that I'm doing is work that anybody could do. And I know that I'm better than that. And that sounds cocky. And that sounds a little arrogant, but like, I know that the work that I do is better than the work of an average person. And so when I'm doing my best when I'm living alive, when I am actually like living to my full potential and being okay with putting my 100% effort into something, and it failing when I'm okay with that, my work and my output is way better than when I am super complacent and mailing it in, and just doing the average work that anybody could do. And so I think for me that that's really what it is. It's when my output starts to look average.

Jordan Johnson  27:32

Oof. Oof. I want those like church fans right now. But I love that though. And and I don't think it's, I really don't think it's anything necessarily to say that it's cocky or arrogant to have this air of confidence. I love that you view that that way and you can help use it as an awareness tool of whether you're in a right place or you're backsliding etc, of how your standard is being met. Right? That's really awesome. I love that.

Anisa Johnson  28:10

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely a competence, a confidence thing. And I think that like anybody could have it, that's, that's another episode another time. But like, confidence is something that you create, it's not something that you have. And it's something that I work on on a daily basis too. It's why I do a lot of the things that I do on a on an everyday basis is for my confidence so that I can feel like I'm on top of the world

Jordan Johnson  28:32

daily daily daily. I love it.

Anisa Johnson  28:36

Okay, so I thought we kind of touched on this but we could sum it up here um, on what does living look like and feel like when you're when you're not existing and when you're actually living what does that feel like? And how does it play out in your in your life? Jordan?

Jordan Johnson  28:56

Yeah, I'm glad we're talking about this. I think we've kind of dropped breadcrumbs for it throughout the conversation here a little bit, as well. But to follow this, this yellow brick road that we've started to lay. I mean look like and feel like... what does living alive look like and feel like? Well, first of all, I wanted to be candid to let people know too. It doesn't look like all rainbows and flowers. Like it's, that's just not reality. And as I mentioned earlier, if you're thinking about it from the sports lens of things, like you know, you, you're gonna have bad games. You're gonna have bad days. You're gonna have bad projects and things that go awry. That's just that's just part of it, right.

But, you know, being able to truly, you know, see what's in front of me experience it. And I mean, then a tangible like, really both literally and figuratively, living alive to me looks and feels like being able to be in an experience. Be in a place and truly be there. Being where my feet are. And I know, people have heard that saying in a lot different probably saying in a lot different paths before, but seeing, touching, you know, hearing and smelling whatever that environment is... being there in presence. Like, I feel like I have the most inspirational, motivating and really impactful outcomes as it relates to my life when I'm living alive in a sense where I can, you know, really think about and be where I am. I think that's a huge part about, you know, what that what that feels like, and looks like.

And I kind of want to hit on one of the things that you mentioned about that confidence. So I won't go too far down that that rabbit hole, though, but I think one of the beautiful parts about living alive with this presence and intentionality to me is, you know, being able to have that standard, that standard that you know, anything that I do, anything that I step into, any relationship that I have, any project that I put my hands on, like it's going to be good, it's going to be good or, or it's not. And I'm going to learn something from it. And I'm going to be better. And I'm going to go forward. That's beautiful to have that as a standard. Because you've kind of redefined what success looks like for you. I'm going to show up. I'm going to be where I am. I'm going to be a supportive crutch in relationships, where there... where I need to play that role. And I'm going to step onto the podium and accept the trophies in the scenarios and places where I have victories and win.  I think that's a bit about, I mean, I could talk for ages and ages about what live alive, looks like and feels like to me. But I think that's a little bit about it, though. But curious. Curious, from your perspective, though. Like, I wish I could ask the world this - what live alive, looks like feels like, smells like to you? What's it  from your perspective?

Anisa Johnson  32:14

It's like when you go on a walk, and you have no schedule for the day. And you notice your breath. And it's like looking up and noticing the blue sky above you. It's like passing a family on a trail and smiling because you see that they're having a fantastic experience. It is very much being. And I think you you've shown me this in so many ways where I can get anxiety around time. The next thing and we've got to be doing the next thing and we have to get to the next thing and you often will just be like I was just being here and I'm like, well, we need to BE there. We need to go and do these things. And and it's about grounding yourself though. And so I think if I think about the times where I'm living alive, there is a something in me that's compelling me to do the things that I'm doing. Whether that's going on a walk. Whether that's getting a work project completed. W hether that's moving forward, you know, pressing record and uploading a podcast, it's compelling me to do something. It's not like anything is pushing me or I'm pushing against something. It's as if I'm being pulled towards something

Jordan Johnson  34:08

that's heavy. Heavy. I love it. Man being pulled towards something.

Anisa Johnson  34:17


Jordan Johnson  34:17

that's huge. that's yeah, I mean, it really hits on one of our points behind our within what we you know, we believe live alive stands for, is it that, that greatness is in all of us already. And if it's there, then that's where the pulling is coming from. 

Anisa Johnson  34:41

Yeah. It's that heart work.

Jordan Johnson  34:43

Oh, heart work. I love it.

Anisa Johnson  34:45

Yeah. So we don't want to just leave you. We want you listening at home or on the treadmill or wherever you are listening to this. We want to take a moment to give you something practical. To make the shift from existing to living so, I'm going to ask you a couple of questions here that I want you to ponder on. If you're a writer like myself and you have the time then pull out a journal and answer these questions for yourself but I'm going to ask you a couple questions. So here we go. The question for you to ask yourself... in what areas of my life am I accepting the status quo? Another question for you to ask yourself...  How can I live with more intentionality? How can I live with more intentionality? Final question, I'll leave you with this. What does shifting from existing to living look like to me? What does shifting from existing to living look like to me? That's all we got for today. We hope that you are inspired by this episode. We so enjoyed putting it together and having this conversation. I always love talking to my dear husband. So to bring you in on this and to listen in on this conversation. And you know, we hope that it will make an impact on your life. So let us know what what you think about it by leaving a review and we will see you next week.

Jordan Johnson  36:31

Indeed, all love people. Take care.

Anisa Johnson  36:35

Thanks for listening to today's episode. We hope that it leaves you feeling inspired to actively pursue your goals and live alive, whatever that means to you. If you enjoyed today's episode, tell us what you think by leaving a review. Reviews help more people like you discover the podcast. I'm Anisa Johnson.

Jordan Johnson  36:53

And I'm Jordan Johnson.

Anisa Johnson  36:55

We'll see you next time on live alive podcast.

John Carter

Entrepreneur & Podcaster

Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non.